question on crooked osage

[richpierce]

I see you guys making snaky bows.  When I work osage with a drawknife it is not that easy for me to see how the grain snakes this way or that.  Am I missing something, should I use a slightly duller tool to shred things a little and show grain better, etc?  It's not like ash or anything where the grain is prominent.

[gpw]

Making a snake bow requires the most careful of wood examination... old geezers like us have to resort to a good magnifying glass, and good lighting ... Proceed slowly and carefully!!!!!!!...chasing one ring , raising knots , going around holes and pins can be bad enough , but tillering can be a real challenge ... My snake bows always got alot of favorable attention , but most were marginal shooters... Good luck !!!

a good scraper can be your friend, a drawknife might be a bit coarse for this kind of work ...gotta' be careful with drawknives  ... that's what happened to my half-brother...

[Aries]

I go through the same problems when i am working on my Osage staves.  A few  helpful hints i have picked up from the bowyers bibles have helped me through some tuff spots.  1.  I always keep the drawknife i use on the backs of my bows very dull and use it as a wedge that will slide right between the early and late growth rings. 2. A little light sanding will help to reveal some of the blemished growth rings 3. Putting a light source at the opposite end of the wood you  are working on help a lot. 4. It may be kind of hard to admit some times but the draw knife isn't the only weapon you have to attack the stave you are working on, when i am tillering/shaping wood that is wavy and twisted i use an oversized double sided horse shoe rasp. This tool removes moderately large amounts of wood and won't dig into the grain.  Hope that helps a little    Ty

[cowboy]

Interesting - I'm going to have to start eyeballing those snaky backs a little closer, just can't seem to find the grain on the back once a ring is chased - watched a guy do it once but didn't understand what he was doin at the time.

[Pat B]

   The lateral grain is where you will find side to side "snakes" and the growth rings are where you find the up and down "snakes". When  a stave develops drying checks along the back it is the lateral grain that is separating. If you look closely at the back you will see thin lines that run lengthwise along the stave's back.These are the lateral grain lines. The ones you follow as you mark out your bows profile and also the lines a split will follow when you apply a sledge and wedge to your log.
   I prefer a dull draw knife when chasing a back ring with osage. I never would have thought of it as a wedge, like Tyrell mentioned, but more of a cutting edge but that exactly what it is.
 Having a good light source shining towards you as you work the stave will make the growth rings jump out at you. Sunlight is best but incandescent light works OK also.   Pat
   

[Pappy]

I use a draw knife like others have said to chase the rings but also use a scraper a lot to
bring it out.When you scrape where you have just used the drawknife you can see right where the rings start and stop.I walk around it a lot to get a different view.Keep looking and you will get
the light just right and it will stand out.Sometimes I use a pencil to mark where the grain stops.
The other grain Pat mentioned is very important also and you get on one end of the stave
and look down on it and you will see it.I lay the center line out with a pencil and free hand the center line,starting in the center of one end and follow the grain down the length to the
other end then lay the bow out off of that line.It gets easier the more of them you look at.
   Pappy

[Woodland Roamer]

When you split snakey osage staves the splits will generally follow the lateral grain along the length of the stave. This can also be helpful in seeing how the lateral grain flows. And like Pappy said, it will get easier the more you do it.

Alan

[richpierce]

Thanks, gentlemen, I thought it was only me having trouble seeing this stuff.  I can chase a ring by feel pretty good, cause the one part of the ring feels scrunchy and the main growth is smooth like butter.  It's the side to side snakiness I am finding the most difficult to follow but I think looking at it at an oblique angle in the correct light will solve much of that.

[George Tsoukalas]

richpierce, there 2 things being talked about here. I just want to make sure. The first is chasing a ring. That is we have to remove the sapwood and go down to a nice heartwood ring. The second thing is following the vertical grain. Forget about running a string or a straight edge. I just look closely at the back after I have chased a ring. The vertical grain is there. They are lines running from tip to tip. jawge

[GregB]

Already a lot of good advice given here. When I'm chasing a grain, I'm back and forth from using a drawknife to remove the bulk of the wood, to dressing it up with a scrapper and reconfirming where the transition line is between one grain and the next.

But like George said, that's just a technique for chasing the grain. To follow the lateral grain for laying out a center line, cleaning up the remnants of the soft honeycone wintergrowth with a scrapper, and then lightly with some sand paper full length of stave will help the lateral grain show up with good light conditions.

Before I actually start with the centerline, I try and make a game plan on what type and length, etc. bow I can best make with the particular stave you've got. If you have a 75" stave, and want to make a 68" bow from it, ask yourself where best to locate the handle such that the limb tips will allow the string to lay down the handle center. Mark that handle center, then locate the other two ends of your bow 34" off center. Know that you can always tweak bow limbs with dry heat or steaming to align if need be. Then I layout the centerline down the stave and establish limb/handle widths off that centerline. Slightly tweaking a line to either side to include or avoid a pin knot or some other feature can be done if you don't violate the lateral grain to much.

Like already mentioned, the more of this you do, the better you'll get at it.

[richpierce]

richpierce, there 2 things being talked about here. I just want to make sure. The first is chasing a ring. That is we have to remove the sapwood and go down to a nice heartwood ring. The second thing is following the vertical grain. Forget about running a string or a straight edge. I just look closely at the back after I have chased a ring. The vertical grain is there. They are lines running from tip to tip. jawge

Thanks Jawge, I find I can chase a ring by sight and feel, and am confident there. 

There's no "feel" from the drawknife for the side to side snakiness and so I want to make sure I am following the vertical grain properly.  I can't see the vertical grain quite as good with the super smooth cuts I have been getting with the shaving chin whiskers-sharp drawknife while chasing the grain.  I can tell some by how the spokeshave is working the sides of the stave, going with or against the grain.  I think if I get it in the right light and look at the oblique angle I'll be fine.

[cowboy]

All you guys have broadend my horizons here - THANKS!! I've been using the dull draw knife till I get to the chattery part (early wood) then I've been turning the knife about ninety degrees to the stave and scraping. Seems to make it slickere'n snot, but ya'lll are talking about really slickin em up to see the vertical grain - plus using the light to see. Can't wait to get home and try er out .
 

[Pappy]

Once you draw out the center line and then lay out the bow ,then all you have to do on the sides is follow the line you have drawn wether it be wit a drawknife,Raps [witch is what I use most of the time ] or a band saw.You limbs should already be laid out according to the longitudinal  grain.Here is a picture of one Laird out.This is a pair of snake bows but you can get the idea.
   Pappy

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[George Tsoukalas]

Rich, the drawknife won't let you see that vertical grain. You have to actually see it. You can see it in Pappy's picture above. Pencil in your line the middle by eyeballing it. Then I measure half the width on each side. If I want my bow to be 1.5 inches wide I measure 0.75 in on each side. I do  it several times on each limb. Then I connect the dots. Jawge