Hand Saw Blade as Broadheads? Any Comments? (Tested it out)

[stickbender]

     Not in the least, should you change, Robby.  In fact, I have a campaign hat just like that, in fact two!  I have a grouse feather in the band, and I hunt in German wool army pants, and a Swedish wool "Civil defense jacket".  I wish I had a pair of those boots though!

                                                Wayne

[Aboriginality]

I've been lurking here for quite some time and haven't said anything yet but after reading this thread I thought I should jump in with some specialized experience in heat treating edged tools. First, the heat treatment is not "tempering". Tempering is only one of the steps of heat treating and it only useful on hardened steel. The basic sequence in heat treating is;
1) Annealing - heating the high carbon steel slightly past non magnetic and then slow cooling. This relieves stress in the steel's microstructure.
2) Hardening - heating the high carbon steel slightly past non magnetic and then quickly cooling as in quenching in some type of fluid. Fully hardened steel is brittle.
3) Tempering - To make the steel tougher, less brittle, and easier to sharpen the fully hardened steel should be heated to take out some of the hardness. Typically, high carbon steels are tempered between 350 degF and 400 degF.
There are many variations on every step though but these are the basic steps. Hope this helps.

[Aboriginality]

BTW, those are some very cool points you forged out there robby!

[anasazi]

Has any one tried carborising there points?  I picked up a piece of sheet steel at a local steel yard for $4 and should get 50 to 100 heads from it  depending on design. Its about the thickness of a skill saw blade but they didnt know anything about the steel i imagine it would hold a edg long enough to take a shot but not to good other than that what's  your thoughts.

[Aboriginality]

It's like trying to make good pack horse into a thoroughbred. The efforts are never going to match up because you aren't starting with the right stock. If you are looking for a quality edge you need to start with high carbon steel. The good news is that it's everywhere. There's no need to use lesser quality steel. If you don't want to buy new stock then look for scrap that had a previous life that required high carbon steel. For instance, quality springs, files, and other edged tools. Saw blades that have added tips on them are more than likely only quality steel on the tips or are coated with a hard material. The core of the saw blade is probably mild steel for strength instead of hardness. Older and larger saws as used in the Logging industry or the like, will be much better. Big antique two man saws are usually a steel alloy called L6 and makes an excellent edged tool. Nicholson black diamond files are known to be W2 tool steel and are of excellent quality. Heavy springs are also a good source. Mystery steel is a waste of time unless you just dont care about heat treating and use it as it is. Do you really need it that hard/sharp? If so, then use quality steel to begin with.

[Slackbunny]

I'm having a heck of time trying to get a good edge on these broadheads. But then again, I can't seem to sharpen anything to shaving quality so I don't know whether its my technique or just poor materials. The closest I can get is being able to cut paper that is being held in slight tension. I can still run my finger across them with light pressure even after hours of attempted sharpening.

[Jim Davis]

Thanks for saving me the trouble Aboriginality. I was about to jump in with those points.

One other useful idea is that you can tell a lot bout a steel by the sparks thrown by a grinder. Try grinding on a file, a spring and a nail and notice the difference in the sparks throw. You want a steel that throws sparks more like the spring than the file, but not at all like the nail.

And, may I raise an impassioned plea? PLEASE don't cut up a good old Disston, Simonds or Atkins hand saw. If there are patches of deep rust on some of the blade, using that one of any brand is not so bad. But using one of the old big-name saws that is in good condition is a sacrilage even worse than doing a dopey tole painting on one!

End of rant.

Jim Davis

[Aboriginality]

Another way of telling if a mystery steel is high carbon is to do a quench test. Heat the end of the piece to a little past nonmagnetic and quench in water. Then file on it with a sharp file. The file should skate across the steel and not remove much if any. This tells you if it's heat treatable. Just do a corner or a piece that you don't intend on using. The quench is harsh on steel and will put stress on the microstructure. Thats why you always anneal before your final heat treatment. Annealing takes all the previous heat treatment out so you start fresh.

[anasazi]

The carborization process will create a layer up to about 1/16th of an inch on all sides which would be the whole head also i have heard that quenching steel in used motor oil does something similar just not as deep

[Aboriginality]

Carburizing is a long slow process and is only skin deep at best when doing it yourself in a backyard situation. I made damascus steel in the 90s using carburized bottle caps and then forge welded them together. Even those took more time then a normal heat treatment does and they're pretty thin. Quenching in oil will penetrate much deeper than carburization ever will. Plus, you can temper hardened steel but it's real easy to lose the carburization effect on thin stock if you reheat it. If you need further proof, just look at the custom knife industry. They use very thorough heat treatments and not carburization. Heat treating isn't that tough to do if you follow the basics. But it's always good to experiment on your own and take advice like mine with a grain of salt. Go for it! You will learn more that way than any.

[outdoorX05]

 Has anyone ever used a old band saw blade from a lumber mill? i have made countless knives from one 4  foot section and a few hunting heads and i have to say that it is some awsome stuff. The steel hold a edge for ever and it is not extremely difficult to sharpen. finding them maybe a problem but i can tell you this. i threw away every hunting knife i ever owned and now make all mine from this blade and have yet to regret it.

[anasazi]

I like salt and i think i will give it a try

[madcrow]

I usually stay away from teh sawblades that are carbide tipped.  But I have made many trade points from tablesaw blades, skilsaw, industrial bandsaw is my favorite, even the old cross cut saws and handsaws.  With the tablesaw and skilsaw blades, I did some heat treating and tempering, some I didn't.  I never mess with the temper of the bandsaw blades and the old handsaws that I have worked with.  They were already hard enough.  Look around, you should be able to find lots of metal to use.

[Aboriginality]

Forged and heat treated. Weighs 87 grains.