Lithics in North America 45,000 years ago?

[Pat B]

 I was watching a show on PBS the other night about uncovering prehistoric bones from a lake bed out west. The glacial lake was being dug out to make a reservoir for a ski resort that was being built. Some bones were uncovered so the developer gave archaeologist 45 days to dig and study what they could.
 The scientists dug about 30 feet down(over 150,000years) in this lake and found all sorts of ancient bones and many layers of strata from thousands of years of sediments. At one point but only a short distance down from the lake bed surface they uncovered mastodon bones that were not in tack but scattered in a relatively small area. On closer inspection they discovered "cut" marks on some of these bones. There were no lithics found around this area but the scientist speculated that these looked like marks similar to what you would find on butchered animals. This part of the site was estimated to be 30,000 years before Clovis.
  Since time was running out for the scientists they plastered the whole area where the bones were found, lifted it with a heavy lift crane and hauled it off to an place that they could take their time to separate the bones(et al) from the matrix and do further studies. I thought it was pretty cool just thinking about how long man has actually been in North America.
 Was Clovis the oldest? What about Salutrian(sp)? ...or were humans in NA way back when?

[sadiejane]

my personal belief(with nothing to back it up but my guts), is yes indeed this continent has been peopled for a good deal longer than has so far been "proven". and it is a strongly held belief by many professionals who know way more than i.  there are professionals who have lost everything making such declarations. fortunately i have nothing to lose. well, i did "lose" a decent grade in school about 40 yrs ago.
in high school i wrote a paper suggesting our path as humans may not be as so far proved. there was then and is now, so much left undiscovered, esp in the americas. some has not been left undiscovered but hidden and disputed even tho the evidence suggests major disruption in how human evolution/migration has been "officially" documented. i got an F on that paper. but i hold those beliefs still today. Many independent lines of evidence exist, some merely suggestive, some strong, and some nothing less than commanding that should have forced a major reappraisal of the entire time line of human prehistory by now, but no such thing is forthcoming from academic archeology and paleoanthropology. The modus operandi remains "evidence that doesn't fit theory is inadmissible".
interesting reading...
http://nersp.nerdc.ufl.edu/~ghi/hhhrchap.html

[Pat B]

Sadie, just knowing that Outzi's bronze ax predated the Bronze Age by 3000 years is pretty good evidence that the ancient history you and I learned was quite inaccurate. History leans towards the beliefs of the writer and not necessarily the truth.
  You should send the info about Outzi to your teacher and see if he(or she) would regrade your paper! 
  I love this stuff! Every time science come up with a thoery about ancient humans something shows up to proove it inaccurate. Maybe they should look for spaceship landing pod marks in the sediments! 

[Gus]

Yes, I too believe that our currently accepted timeline is off track.

Ötzi's axe is very Cool example.

Some of the finds further out on the sea floor areas around the world should get folks looking further out.
A lot of folks live along the sea shore for obvious reasons today. Our distant ancestors were no different.
And with the significantly lower sea levels of the past back to 30 to 50 thousand years ago,
I'm betting there is a lot of human history laying out on the Continental Shelf all around the planet.

-gus

[Pat B]

Gus, the most recent Ice Age ended about 15000 years ago about the time of Clovis and Salutrian findings in NA. At that time the coast line of NC was 60 miles out from where it is now...60 miles! A lot can happen in a 60 mile area over 15000 years or longer.

[Gus]

Yes Sir Pat!

Out of Galveston or Freeport, Texas that works out to 200 to 500+ feet deep...
Who knows what some teenaged lithic hot head painted on Stetson Rock...



-gus

[osage outlaw]

What was the name of that show Pat?  I will do a search and see if I can find it.

[criveraville]

Interesting findings for sure. There's a book out titled something like, All the Lies My History Teacher Taught Me..

Cipriano

[Pat B]

It may have been NOVA, Clint. But not sure.

[wolfsire]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/earth/ice-age-death-trap.html#

[JackCrafty]

Many, if not most, experts are now admitting that clovis was not the first culture in the Americas.  There is concrete proof of earlier cultures in NA that has been discovered within the last 10 years.  The earliest date is now about 15,000+ years ago.  Clovis is about 11,500 years old.  There are artifacts buried deeper than clovis in at least one site in Texas.  We also now know that there were several distinct migrations into the Americas and not all of the people came from the same areas or even looked like eachother.

[Bevan R.]

Very interersting show. Thanks for the link wolfsire.

[bowtarist]

I like this.

[johnston]

Was reading an archeology magazine today on a dig in, I believe, Buttermilk Texas. Had a mastodon rib bone
with a bone arrowhead stuck in it that dated 3000 years before Clovis. Might be the same site jackcrafty was
talking about.

As to accepted academic historical parameters...I know damn well some of what I lived through is being taught
sanitized and PC 'ed up so how can I trust what I was taught about anything historical?

Lane

[criveraville]

johnston you can't.  :embarassed:

Cipriano