Author Topic: sinew backing a bow  (Read 3034 times)

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Offline luke the drifter

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sinew backing a bow
« on: August 25, 2011, 07:25:24 pm »
will sinew backing a bow reduce set.  as it stands right now i have 1.5 inches of set about half way into the tillerking process. i figure i will end up with 2 to 3/3.5 inches of set with the finished  product is finished. i plan on backing the bow regardless but was just curious about it

Offline Pat B

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Re: sinew backing a bow
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2011, 08:18:51 pm »
Apparently your stave is too wet or you are overstressing it as you tiller. Adding any backing to a bow with 2 1/2" to 3" of set is a waste of time, energy and materials. If you want to build a backed bow plan it ahead of time and build a backed bow. Trying to cover up problems with a backing might help some but the damage is already done.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline luke the drifter

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Re: sinew backing a bow
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2011, 10:46:46 pm »
pat,

the stave is not wet though it may not have had a long enough time to cure/season by some standards.  overstressing it is more than likely my problem. curing it six months to a year is probably not long enough but i was just wanting to try something.  i will say this though the wood tends to spring back making set less than what i previously mentioned.  i worked on it this evening and reached the target i wanted with it.  it may go down even lower than 2.5 to 3 possibly 1.5 to 1.75 inches of set.  i have other staves to work with but i will let them cure even longer.  what would be a good moisture content for osage that would help reduce situations like this.

luke

Offline MWirwicki

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Re: sinew backing a bow
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2011, 11:15:40 pm »
I agree with Pat.  I sinew back a bow when it is part of my initial plan for the bow.  I won't waste valuable, especially time consuming sinew attempting to fix a bow that didn't turn out well.  Study what went wrong, take the lessons learned, then build a better bow the next time.

On moisture content, I'm not a technical kind of bow maker.  I don't spend a lot of time on forced draw curves, grain weights of arrows and moisture meters.  I've built a bunch of osage bows.  If you're starting from a quarter split stave, you should wait at least a year before making a bow, start to finish.  Period.

However, You can reduce the seasoning period significantly through methodical reductions of the wood from the original quarter split.  When you're removing any wood, you're also removing moisture content, right?  Less wood, less moisture to deal with.  But you shouldn't rush this either.   First, peal the bark, sapwood and establish a growth ring.  Apply glue or cheap sealer to the established growth ring (back of the bow).  Wait a couple two or three weeks.  Then I'll draw out a bow on the back.  I'll cut out the bow leaving a 1/4-inch outside of the lines that I drew.  Then I glue/seal the sides and wait another couple two or three weeks.  Then I'll cut closer to my lines and also cut the belly shape so that I am prepared for floor tillering.  Wait again, 2-3 weeks.  At this phase, if you steam the bow and clamp it to a form, you can take out undesirable kinks, propeller twists, etc.  The added benefit though is that steaming seasons the bow further, driving moisture out of the wood.  There are physics involved in why this happens which I do understand technically, but this is a primitive website and most times the technical hubbub bores me.

That being said, remember that it doesn't matter to the wood how long it takes to become a bow.  Our best bows are those we spent the most time on.
Matt Wirwicki
Owosso, MI

Offline Pat B

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Re: sinew backing a bow
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2011, 12:56:15 am »
I agree with Matt that the slow methodical method of preping a stave to become a bow will cause less stress on the stave so your bow will have less set.
  A good M/C for osage and most bow woods is between 9% to 11%. Hickory performs best at 6%.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

mikekeswick

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Re: sinew backing a bow
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2011, 06:29:36 am »
If you can dry wood quickly without damaging it, you can make a bow out it quickly.
A 6 x 6 with the bark still on will take a loooooonnnnng time to dry out, however if you reduce your stave to near final dimensions (including thickness), experience and many bows under your belt will help greatly here, then your wood can be dry enough within a couple of weeks. The key is gradually speeding up the process as the wood dries eg. don't take a dripping wet stave and put it in a hot box!
Wood doesn't 'know' whether it's been seasoned for years or weeks. If the moisture content is below 12% you are good to go. A moisture meter can be useful but the best thing you can buy is a humidity meter, this lets you know the humidity of the environment you are keeping your stave in. One that measures temperature as well as humidity will let you know what your stave is heading for moisture contentwise. Search wood humidity/temperature on paleoplanet.net for a table.

Online Pappy

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Re: sinew backing a bow
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2011, 07:42:11 am »
Good advice here,I do agree with not sinewing a bow to try and fix it,to much time goes into it to use a secondary piece of wood.I also agree on the quick drying helps especially on white wood,I never do it on Osage, Osage has to be at least a year old before I even think about making a bow. I prefer to work them down close to bow size, straighten them seal them all over and put them up for at least a year or more. I know some say it don't matter and it may not but for me my best bows came out of seasoned wood,dry and seasoned,the longer the better. :)
Luck this kind of got off subject but if you are only half done tillering just slow down and figure what is going on with you tillering and there is no reason you should wind up with 3 inches of set. You could also stop now and put it on the form [if you have one]  if not pull in into slight reflex and heat treat the belly let it cool  and rehydrate then carry on tillering.   :) By the way you didn't mention what type of wood are you using ? 
     Pappy
Clarksville,Tennessee
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Offline artcher1

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Re: sinew backing a bow
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2011, 10:53:15 am »
Any bow that I plan on sinewing I'll get it shooting first, making sure string alignment is good w/perfect arrow flight, and only then will I sinew it. Everyone's mileage differs I guess.........Art

Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: sinew backing a bow
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2011, 11:27:28 am »
Art, Art, Art! You interupted the flow pal! I have sinewed bows before they ever were bent and I also sinewed a hickory bow that was shot to death with 3" of set. The hickory bow looked great for about 500 or so shots, then it went right back to where it started, maybe 1/2" less set? I wasted time and sinew on that bow. Im not saying shooting it first wont work, but maybe shooting it too much first was a bad idea on my part.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

Offline artcher1

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Re: sinew backing a bow
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2011, 02:00:28 pm »
Sorry Pearly! ;D Last worn out bow I sinewed I retained 4 1/2" of induced backset after being well shot in. That's starting with 3" string follow and now sets with 1 1/2" reflex. Heat the limbs real good and set back twice as far as you need. I think I started with 5 1/2" of reflex..........Art

Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: sinew backing a bow
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2011, 02:07:29 pm »
Plan "B" for this particular bow may be to heat the fade area up hotter than heck and try to just set the handle back. I have done that in the past and the set back stayed put and added alot of performance to an otherwise doggy bow. Matter of fact I just did it to an old, doggy osage flat bow I have. I ended up gaining almost 8#'s of draw and now have about 3/4" of reflex in the bow. I got her smoking hot before I clamped it down though.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

Offline Eric Garza

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Re: sinew backing a bow
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2011, 02:43:19 pm »
As for the question of how long to season osage that depends on a lot of things. What are the dimensions of the stave? I'd say it's best to let osage staves season for at least a couple years, the longer the better. I've worked 10 year old osage and it was nice and took zero set. I've made a similar bow from 6 month old osage and it took 3 inches of set.

Length of seasoning makes a huge difference, and the more dense, more oily the wood you're using the longer the stave should be left to season.