Mantra Red Oak board bow for contest - Build along

[RyanY]

Got a board today and went to town. Had nice straight grain for most of the middle of the board and then waved off closer to the tips. Not worried about any grain violations because of the long length of the bow and straightness of the grain.




Pics showing the dimensions of the board.



First thing I do is draw the center line down the bow. Next I mark out the handle length with fades and mark mid limb. This bow in particular will be 80" with a 10" handle. To mark out the front view profile I split each limb into four equal sections so that more points can be drawn for accurate lines. This one is 2" at the fades tapering to 1.5" at mid limb and then tapers to 3/8" nocks. Because this bow will be for optimal speed I also draw out a general Eiffel tower shape to 1/4" nocks but leave them wide to be narrowed later. The Eiffel tower shape is done by first drawing a pyramid taper from mid limb to the nocks and then taking a second measurement at the half way point, making it slightly narrower and drawing lines from that to the nocks and mid limb. Sorry if this is confusing.

Here is the bow just cut out on the band saw with the handle and tip overlays ready for glue up.


A little about design: This bow is essentially a red oak version of the 80" pecan bow by Tim Baker in the TBBV4. Red oak, being less dense than pecan, needs to be made wider in order to take less set. I will measure the SG of the wood momentarily as I have a piece drying in the oven.

Please comment and criticize or ask any questions. Thanks for looking.

[toomanyknots]

Ok, I see how it is, ... so not only are you gonna whoop everybody at the red oak board bow contest, but your gonna rub it in everybodys face every step of the way with a buildalong,..  Was it a dense board? I have noticed with red oak that the denser the board, the more brittle it is in tension. I have also noticed that the denser pieces tend to be lighter in color and less pink, and the pinker pieces tend to be lighter, but better in tension. At least for me anyway. Can't wait to see this demon of a bow shooting!

[blackhawk]

Sweeeeeet Ryoon.....thanks for sharing your build,and doing it in this style. Something I personally think more people should be building this style. Why they don't boggles my mind. This style can be done with most woods and most lengths. Notice I said most.    I hope too also see a stiff 18" center in your tiller. Oh yes,I know how the tiller should look with this one. And this will be a good learning session for some newer guys. Thanks again 


Ps...nice board too. It almost goes flat sawn in the middle there. Should be good.

[RyanY]

I guess a little sarcasm goes a long way. This may or may not end up to be a fast bow. Hopefully I can do the design justice. I thought I'd do a build along for fun and hopefully someone will get something from it. I also hope get some excellent advice along the way. Secrets of design and bow making are meant to be shared for all to enjoy. Hopefully we'll learn a bit about making fast red oak board bows from this contest.

After a few hours in the oven and some microwave sessions the piece of red oak measured to be a bit less than 0.65 SG.

[RyanY]

Got the handle and tips glued on and brought the sides down to the lines. Front view is where I want it now for tillering but it is still full thickness along the length of the bow.

Side view


Front view


I'm almost considering trapping the back but I need to make sure I won't be adding grain run offs. Thoughts?

[gmc]

Excellent choice with regards to design. I don't think trapping the back will do much for the bow as the light tip mass will be doing most of the work anyway. Trapping the back could cause other issues and may not be worth the risk. Just my thoughts.

Nice work, you should do well with this design.

[johnston]

Ok, I ain't ranting or even venting just let me say my piece and I'm gone.

Red oak is very very tough. I have a 55# @25" bow with grain that makes you dizzy to look at. Nine run-offs in 64". Yeah , I backed it with man made stuff but only after the first 200 were put thru it. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT RED OAK. Just do not heat treat it.

The design argumentation astounds me.Somebody is probably hard at work right now on a 12 foot bow with drastic siyahs that will blow everybody away except for the newbie kid that wants to shoot it. Build it don't talk it to death.

Hat's off to Ken75. He built it and that was it.
It just ain't that big of a deal fellers.

Lane

[toomanyknots]

Ok, I ain't ranting or even venting just let me say my piece and I'm gone.

Red oak is very very tough. I have a 55# @25" bow with grain that makes you dizzy to look at. Nine run-offs in 64". Yeah , I backed it with man made stuff but only after the first 200 were put thru it. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT RED OAK. Just do not heat treat it.

The design argumentation astounds me.Somebody is probably hard at work right now on a 12 foot bow with drastic siyahs that will blow everybody away except for the newbie kid that wants to shoot it. Build it don't talk it to death.

Hat's off to Ken75. He built it and that was it.
It just ain't that big of a deal fellers.

Yeah I get it I said something about siyahs and somehow pissed everybody off hey you know this isn't even the right thread if me talking about anything pisses you off for some reason why don't you PM me or something or better yet don't instead of whine about it in someone elses thread all randomly.

[RyanY]

Thanks for the input on your opinions on red oak guys.

gmc, Trapping the back makes the back of the bow do more work per mass thus reducing the mass of the bow, which is good in general but most important at the tips.

johnston, I believe that red oak can take some violation but I just want to be safe. Maybe the bow you made would have broken on the 201st shot without the backing.  Because of the draw weight limitation, I don't think anyone would make a 12 foot bow because, beyond a certain length, string mass eats up efficiency so there is no gain in performance. Also I don't think anyone could shoot it. Discussion is what drives us to build these designs. It's like philosophy before experimentation. I don't mean to show off with this thread. Even if only one person learns something from this it will have been worth it. I just thought it would be fun to do a build along of a bow that most people know about yet is rarely built. It's only a big deal if you feel it is.

Toomanyknots, I don't think you angered anyone and I know you didn't anger me. I love discussing design and really believe that it is where we learn best from each other. Don't let anything stop you from sharing your thoughts and ideas.

[Stingray45]

I didn't realize siyah's were controversial.

[JW_Halverson]

I'd rather talk siyas than effinglass! 

Nice board, Ryoon.  Picking the board is a huuuuge part of the process, but at least you know what grain you got coming, unlike a stave ordered from even the most scrupulous of dealers!

Good work everyone that is chipping in!

[soy]

Not causeing any tension, but I for one appreciate the build along...looking good keep em coming!

[Stretch]

I'm not ranting or even venting, but as a newbie I really, really appreciate the build along.   

[wvarcher]

Good Pics.  I like build-a-longs.  That looks like a really fast and efficient design. 

[toomanyknots]

See if I made a bow like this, I'd have ta make 2, cause I wouldn't wanna give it away for nothing...