sioux arrows!

[okiecountryboy]

Randy i think you would be surprised,close range ,sufficient energy and small diameter shaft.I'd say it would bury em to the fletching JMO

Lots of great info...
Thwackaddict
You got that right about penetration. I've got a molle from Halfeye that will put one of my arrows through a dense hay bale and penetrate the 1/4" plywood backing. As you said though....JMO

Ron

[JW_Halverson]

I've always had a theory about their style of buffalo hunting.  When you are on horseback and pull up side by side with a buffalo, matching it stride for stride, and the two of them are nose and nose going into the stretch what's the most likely thing to happen?  I imagine the most likely scenario would be for the buff to reach over and hook that horse putting an abrupt end to the whole intended series of shenanigans. 

Now imagine the rider coming up to the flank of the buff, shooting 45 degrees forward in the front of the paunch/back of the rib cage.  Good chance of nicking some liver as the arrow passes thru into the pumphouse, without the problem of catching a rib or shoulderblade.  And if by chance the arrowdoes not pass out of the rib cage, every stride of that critter causes that arrow shaft to move back and forth in a sawing motion, causing that broadhead to do more and more damage.   

Mind you, this is only theory.  I have read several accounts of buffalo hunts by mounted natives, and none of the observers ever gave much insight into exactly where/how the arrow was placed for best effect.  But if you will all fund my efforts to build a time machine, I am willing to be the second test subject. 

[mullet]

 I agree with you, JW. Shooting through the brisket while staying away from those horns makes a lot of sense to me. And it wouldn't really take one of those 100#, short, "buffalo",  bows.

[Thwackaddict]

JW Now that you mention it,if you think about that front leg bone on a full stride buff,thats alot of movement  and alot of heavy bone movement to compensate For so the quartering slip one behind the ribs only makes sense to me!I'm aint ridin in a time machine with ya but....If you got a Horse i know a guy who has some buffalo we could make like injuns and run em around his farm

[JackCrafty]

Hmmm...now that the subject has come around to buffalo hunting, I'll add my two cents. 

There's a fellow flintknapper who lives near me that has a large collection of arrow points that he has found over the years.  He told me that many of the points were found in groups among buffalo remains.  This means, as far as the way the local Indians hunted, that more than one arrow was used to kill a buffalo.

There is also a consensus among "old timers" around here that the lungs were the target.  The buffalo would run off with the arrows stuck in it and then die some distance away.  The horse allowed easy search and retrieval as well as a platform for shooting arrows.

I don't think any of the buffalo went down immediately from an arrow strike...like we saw in the movie "Dances With Wolves."

Also, if you've ever watched a bull fight, you know that a bull can be distracted....so fighters can stick banderillas in the bull without having to chase the animal.  Also, spears are used to strike and weaken the bull.

Undoubtedly, Native Americans knew how to separate a buffalo from the herd, distract it long enough for other hunters to take their shots, and then move on to the next buffalo.  When they had shot a number of baffalo, they would then begin looking for the dead and dying ones as the rest of the herd moved off.

OK, that's it.

[half eye]

Speakin of buff huntin.........here is a quote from "North American Bows, arrows, and quivers" ; Otis Tufton Mason ; first appeared in in the "Annual Report of the Smithsonian Institution" 1893. This quote is Mason citing Oliver Marcy from "Science, vol. VII, p.528"

     "I have in my possession the sixth dorsal vertebra of a buffalo, the spine of which contains an iron arrow point. The arrow struck the spine about 2 inches above the center of the spinal canal, and penetrated the bone .82 of an inch. The bone at the point struck is .55 of an inch thick, and the point of the arrow protrudes beyond the bone .27 of an inch. The arrow was shot from the right side of the animal and the plane of the point was horizontal. The animal was mature and the bones well ossified. Though the vertebra has been much weathered, the epiphyses adhere closely. The animal was not as large as some individuals. The whole vertical length of the vertebra is 13 inches.
      "The arrow must have penetrated several inches of flesh before striking the bone."  Otis Mason adds; "He does not take into consideration also the thick hide and matted wolly hair, both especially thick at the point struck."

This is only one arrow point in one animal, so there isn't enough info to make general statement, however in this case here it appears that the shot was from horse back, and aimed either for the spine or was a lung shot that hit high.  Just some more of my "internet crap" research, so take it for what it's worth. For the scientific types the book is considered ..." ....but still remains viable as a study of the subject, and even today few works surpass it."  Written by Steve Allely, April 22, 2007
rich

[JackCrafty]

This painting by Catlin shows that this buffalo is dying from a lung shot.  Probably typical.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[JW_Halverson]

There is a rather incredible museum that occupies most of the main street in Epping, ND.  One of the items that grabbed my interest waaay back in 1975 was the section of buffalo hump vertebrae that had the iron trade arrowhead imbedded at the juncture of the hump rib and the main body of the vertebra.  For those that have not seen the hump vertebra, the spinal process on the very top of the bone reaches up to 12" high - like a rib, except not seperate bones like the ribs surrounding the chest.  The angle of the broadhead was such that the buffalo had to be on the ground when the shot was made because it was angling downward at 45 degrees! 

Most likely, it was a final kill shot on a downed animal.  But that leaves me to speculate that the buffalo was not butchered after it was killed.  Hump meat was highly prized, right? If they had butchered, they would have found the broadhead and recovered it.  Trade points were valuable goods, not to be left behind.  Or else the animal got away and was not recovered.  I don't know if there was any bone remodeling around the point or not, so this is all speculation, not the real CSI where we'd have the dramatic answer in just less than an hour. 
 

[Traxx]

JW,
Your theory,is spot on.Ive worked with Buff a horsebackand im gonna tell you,that a point blank shot,along side a critter is a dangerous predicament to put yourself and your mount in.Also,it doesnt present a high percentage kill shot.A rear shot,and slightly quartering away shot,presents a high percentage shot,behind the short ribs and in to the lungs and or other lethal organs.Besides,running along side any Bovine,generally causes them to make an abrupt turn,in either direction,which doesnt present a very well placed shot.This may explain the head in the hump,that you describe.Maybe shot by a younger inexperienced hunter,who got a bit excited and flubbed the shot.

[Tom Leemans]

Here's some interesting info. http://margo.student.utwente.nl/sagi/artikel/native/

[JW_Halverson]

VERY informative article.  The descriptions of the items were detailed enough to help other's recreate the artifacts, and I really appreciate that kind of detail.

I'm kind of nitpicking maybe, but I have to wonder about several small points.  First, he refers to arrow shafts as 'stele'. Stele are stone (though sometimes wooden) slabs carved with inscriptions or figures erected like monuments.  The other use of stele is the description of the inner part of a plant's root system where the actual conduction of water/nutrients/etc take place.  I cannot find any other reference to an arrow shaft being called 'stele'.  Second, the constant reference to 'hoof glue' being used as an adhesive.  Is it even possible to make glue from hooves out on the prairie using buffalo patties for fuel for the fire?  I couldn't even get glue from deer hooves after simmering on the stove for 24 hrs.  The problem with using incorrect or irregular terminology is that it brings into question the validity of the writing...just like if someone can't get your name correct, how well do they really know you? 

[Sparrow]

I have seen three kill site buffalo vertebrae that had stone points embedded in the vertebrae , the point having penetrated the spinal cord.  '  Frank

[JW_Halverson]

I have seen three kill site buffalo vertebrae that had stone points embedded in the vertebrae , the point having penetrated the spinal cord.  '  Frank

Are any of these on public display or in a museum?  I'd be interested in seeing some photos of these.

[NorthernArcher]

Howard Hill once shot a buffalo from horseback.  One arrow, and the animal went down pretty quick.  Also, there is an eyewitness account related in the TBB where a Cree hunter took down 16 buffalo with 17 arrows.  So it would seem that one arrow can do the job, and relatively quickly at that.