What size for patches for a .50 muzzleloader

[woodsman1031]

Hello to  all,

   I have not been on here in quite a white. I just got an old (40 years) CVA hawken rifle with set triggers. This gun was built from a kit and was never fired. The guy that built it used it as a wallhanger and I just bought it from his wife. I have been told that this should be a pretty good rifle because CVA had better products when they started out.

  I was reading on another post here about using pillow ticking for patches. What size should the patch be cut out at? Should it be round or square cut? I used to have a trad muzzleloader 20 years ago, but I just used pieces of a t shirt the few times I shot it. I just plinked with it and never actually sighted it in and found an ideal load.

  I want to use the correct patch size and dial in a good load for this rifle because I am planning on retiring my bolt rifle. I dont have any areas at my place where I would shoot over 100 yards anyway.

  Does anyone have a guess on the twist of the barrel may be? I am hoping to use round balls.

  Is there a minimun powder size to be effective on deer and chest shots on hogs?

Thanks

[jeff halfrack]

  good  score!!   first,  clean,clean,clean!  you  want no rust!,,,that should  have a 1in66" twist  those love round balls, the patches,,,well that opens up a lot of  debate,,,ticking should do it,,,I use patches  from a company  called  ox yoke,,they  sell  a whole bunch of sizes the  key is to find a used patch  and it  will tell you  the story!!  i.e. gas getting around the patch or  torn from to tight ect.  if I could sugest  just one  thing,  that  would  be to  use  the  new sulphur  free  powders!  I use  american pioneer it's agood  clean powder  cleans  with  just  water!!!   but  the  caps  still  are  dirty  litte sob's   and  like  some one  posted  before,, that  old  gun  will  take  a  whole  bunch of  shooting to  get  cured in!!  it  will  shoot  better  with  use good  luck  be  safe!!!!!!!!!!  have  a  ball,,,,,,,,,and  keep  yer  powder dry!   JEFFW

[Hillbilly]

My CVA St. Louis Hawken has a 1 in 48" twist. I've killed a pile of deer with it over the years, good accurate gun. I would start at about 75 grains charge and work up from there to see what shoots the best. Mine likes 90 grains, but that varies from gun to gun. The patch size should be whatever wraps around a .490 ball-experiment, the size isn't really critical as long as it makes a good gas seal and shoots accurately. About .015-.018 is the usual thickness you want for a patch for most guns, just make sure that it's 100% cotton with no synthetic fibers in it.

[Grunt]

Tear off a two inch wide strip of pillow ticking. Lube the ticking both sides. Lay the ticking over the muzzle and place a round ball on top of the ticking. Take a short starter and pop the round ball down flush with the end of the muzzle. Take a patch knife and cut the ticking off flush with the end of the muzzle. Push the ball down with the short started and take the ramrod and ram her home. Oh yeh , put the powder in first.
 Take a half inch drill and a wooden plank and make a loading block and carry several patched,lubed balls ready to go. 

[stickbender]

    CVA had very accurate barrels.  The later ones, around the seventies, and eighties, the locks weren't so too pretty good. Those that had a fly in the lock were good ones.  A friend of mine got one for Christmas from his wife.  I shot well, but the lock was not a good one.  It was two piece stock kit, in .45 .  I have a CVA Kentucky pistol, which was a kit, in .45, and again the barrel was very accurate, but the lock was not the best, and the nipple didn't line up right for the hammer contact.
But you should have a good shooter, and patch configuration isn't important, square, vs. round.  Just do like grunt said, or just get some commercial patches.  Do like Hillbilly said, and try different loads, starting off at about 75 grains, and working up, and clean in between each shot, just run a brush and then a patch down the bore, and find which load the gun likes, and try a Maxie.  Did you get the hawken?  It sounds like it.  If so try a maxi ball also, at various loads.  See which one it likes, and which one you like. (kick) Either maxi ball, or round ball will drop a deer, or hog.  Years ago, a Friend of mine I was hunting with, shot a deer with a maxi ball, at about fifty yd.s and it just fell over, never kicked, or moved. Just died instantly.  But the round ball will drop it also.  Remember you are using pure soft lead, and it deforms nicely on deer, and just about anything else.  Enjoy

[woodsman1031]

    CVA had very accurate barrels.  The later ones, around the seventies, and eighties, the locks weren't so too pretty good. Those that had a fly in the lock were good ones.  A friend of mine got one for Christmas from his wife.  I shot well, but the lock was not a good one.  It was two piece stock kit, in .45 .  I have a CVA Kentucky pistol, which was a kit, in .45, and again the barrel was very accurate, but the lock was not the best, and the nipple didn't line up right for the hammer contact.
But you should have a good shooter, and patch configuration isn't important, square, vs. round.  Just do like grunt said, or just get some commercial patches.  Do like Hillbilly said, and try different loads, starting off at about 75 grains, and working up, and clean in between each shot, just run a brush and then a patch down the bore, and find which load the gun likes, and try a Maxie.  Did you get the hawken?  It sounds like it.  If so try a maxi ball also, at various loads.  See which one it likes, and which one you like. (kick) Either maxi ball, or round ball will drop a deer, or hog.  Years ago, a Friend of mine I was hunting with, shot a deer with a maxi ball, at about fifty yd.s and it just fell over, never kicked, or moved. Just died instantly.  But the round ball will drop it also.  Remember you are using pure soft lead, and it deforms nicely on deer, and just about anything else.  Enjoy

  I have that same kentucky pistol. I bought it as a new/old kit last year and the lock is terrible. The trigger rattles and the hammer dont liine up so good with the nipple.  I havent shot it yet, but I will soon when I get some bullets. I bought this .45 pistol to hunt rabbits. The lock on this rifle is WAY better than the one on my pistol. I thought maybe whoever built this one used a different lock than what came  in the kit. What is a fly in the lock?


  Thanks for all of the help guys!

[JW_Halverson]

I have one of those CVA's that had the poorer quality lock.  A little fiddling around with a drill and some files, I made a tumbler-to-sear bridle to hold things in place better.  Without the bridle, the only bearing surface for the tumbler is the lock plate.  With just a little bit of shooting, the lock plate starts to wear out and the tumbler now rocks back and forth.  It was easy enough to do, and the lock mortise had plenty of room so I didn't even have to inlet the extra space for the bridle.

Mind you, the barrel was more accurate than the shooter could take advantage of....bench shooting from a vice made some amazing looking groups on targets.

[kinkfeather]

for the size of the round ball is most inportant.the best i have shot is 49.5.the more room in the riflings the less accurate.the patch is a sealer to keep the gas pressure behind the ball.i use dennium but you have to wash it 2 times before use .08 thickness lubed on one side with tc borebutter.@ 50 yards it shoots 5 shot 1.2 inch group open sights off the bench.as far as conicals i never had luck with them not accurate enought for me.i reccomend fff black powder.the most accurate load is 70 grains of fff black powder.i lube my patches with tc borebutter an i clean with it too between each that is the most important thing to do for accuracy.do not get a too tight of patich because when your push the ball down the barrel you might deform the ball. that tc bore butter will season your bore as good as anything.i never wash the bore i always use tc bore butter.if you take care of your gun you will never ware it out.i have shot at least 1000 rounds in my hawkens over the past 35 years an have killed 13 does with it.kink