Author Topic: In Progress Tybrind Vig Bow  (Read 6049 times)

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Offline Dane

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In Progress Tybrind Vig Bow
« on: June 01, 2010, 06:02:09 pm »
Hi, everyone.

I am not finished with this bow, but figured I would share this project anyway. One lesson is that you can make a quick bow and have a lot of fun, and learn a lot from mistakes and less than perfect craftsmanship. Also, making means getting better, and the world will not end if you don't live up to your potential. Also, not being afraid to ruin a hard won or purchased stave is a nice mental place to be.

Another lesson to the new guys on this board is to not hesitate to post your work, even if you feel it is not worthy of the amazing work of this community. This bow certainly isn't! This is simply the friendliest group, and the help you get is priceless. No questions are dumb, and so please post away.

Basically, I needed a bow really quickly for an event (Farm Day, posted some shots earlier). I had a nice surgar maple stave (with a few issues) that was i.e. less than perfect. The bow design I feel in love with, a Mesolithic Danish design from an underwater site called Tybrind Vig. It dates to the Ertebolle period.

The bow design came from a book called The Bow Builder's Book (Schiffer Books), and is my current favorite archery book. Lots of Stone Age bows, a nice Viking design, and nice data on knapping and a chapter on Neolithic arrow making by Jurgen Junkmanns.

The original bow was crafted from elm, and is 167 cm long (65.7" long). Finally, instead of stuggling with converting metric to inches, I used a metric ruler on this project. Way easier when dealing with lots of bow data not in inches.

So, I started hacking this out with a hatchet and adz, and worked quickly, not usually recommended, then moved to draw knife and spoke shave, then rasps and scrapers. I spend a total of about 6 hours over 2 days getting this at least in shootable form, and you can see from the full draw shot that the tiller is LESS than perfect. Shot two shows the bow on the tiller stick (the first after inital tiller, the second after second tillering), so you can see even more how unperfect the tiller is :)

The next few hours of the young bow's life was spend in hellish conditions, ie tons of kids yanked her back, held for long time or only made it half way back, dropped it, mistreated her, and had a great time doing so. If nothing else, I know it is kid proof. 

After the event, I finished tillering it, and also heat treated it a bit. The last shot shows the bow on the tiller stick. Yes, not perfect, but still a very sweet shooting, servicable bow. Stacking is not noticable, and there is no jarring thump when you release the arrow.

I will finish sanding it later, seal and finish it, and know it gave me some experience for a much more carefully made replica of the same bow. That one (two) I am making from elm, the proper wood for this replica. Bonus: sticking to the Mesolithic period means you don't have to have the no-yew blues. :)

I used my hand-forged froe, and if you have ever hated splitting elm, I highly recommend that tool. I split a 4" or so tree with scarcely any sweat or cursing in just a few minutes. The tree was cut down last year, and so it still just a bit green, so two new Tybrind Vig bows are reduced down to close to bow dimensions and drying right now in my workshop.

And with that, here is the photographic evidence. Eventually, I will post photos of the bow, but it will be bit before I can get back to sanding and finishing it. In the mean time, barring wet weather, it will be a fun bow. It pulls about 45 lbs at 27". BTW, the original has asymetical knocks and some other design features I will address properly in the next couple.

Dane

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« Last Edit: June 01, 2010, 06:08:47 pm by Dane »
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Lombard

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Re: In Progress Tybrind Vig Bow
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2010, 06:10:26 pm »
Looks like a shooter to me.

Offline Dane

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Re: In Progress Tybrind Vig Bow
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2010, 06:16:16 pm »
Thanks, Lombard. I appreciate that.

You know, on the less than perfect tiller issue, maybe for these ancient designs, that is not as critical as we are all conditioned to think. Not that I am advocating lousy craftsmenship, but one writer in the above mentioned book does address this. No such thing, as far as we know, on fancy tillering trees, or even a mirror to examine your work in, let alone digital cameras to examine your work or to share on the Internet. The best an ancient bowyer could maybe do was have someone take a look and tell him what he thought.

On a parallel note, I am becoming more and more convinced to only way to do one of these Stone Age bows right (meaning really learn why a design was done a certain way, and how the tools both limit you and give you advantages) is with Stone Age tools. I am working hard at getting to that place, but it is not an overnight process.

Dane
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline Josh

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Re: In Progress Tybrind Vig Bow
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2010, 08:34:36 pm »
Very nice bow Dane.  Talking about fancy tillering trees and other tools,  I sometimes use my shadow on a sunny day to check tiller while in the field... I think our ancestors probably took advantage of this too.  But you are right they probably weren't as fussy as we are about perfecting the arc of tiller.  :)
“The trouble with quotes on the Internet is you never know if they are genuine.” —Abraham Lincoln

Offline Hillbilly

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Re: In Progress Tybrind Vig Bow
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2010, 08:48:20 pm »
That's looking good, Dane. Tiller doesn't look bad to me at all-a little stiff in the outer limbs perhaps, but that would be perfect tiller for a Holmegaard/Mollegobet style bow and they are good performers. As long as it isn't taking a bunch of set, I'd leave the tiller like it is if it shoots good and doesn't jar your teeth out on release. Looking forward to seeing the next ones in the series.
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Progress might have been all right once but it's gone on for far too long.

Offline Dane

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Re: In Progress Tybrind Vig Bow
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2010, 11:24:27 pm »
Josh, thanks. That sunlight trick I do know, but it really doesnt seem to like working for me. Maybe I just need to squint more. Tom Mills used it in his article in TBB4.

Hillybilly, Yug Shugguth! Thanks for the comments. The set is mimimil, about a shade under 1" one one tip, and 1.5" or so on the other. The set took before I did the heat treatment. I perhaps should have made the outer limbs bend more, and took a bit more off the tips (thinned, not piked), but I am happy enough with it that I will leave it alone. It will be a good bow to take along to events, let kids and adults shoot it, and if it gets more beat up, that is fine.

Dane
« Last Edit: June 01, 2010, 11:29:02 pm by Dane »
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline ricktrojanowski

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Re: In Progress Tybrind Vig Bow
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2010, 11:42:29 pm »
Dane
Looks good to me, especially given the time you made it in.  I spend more than 6 hrs laying out design. ;D
Traverse City, MI

Offline acker

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Re: In Progress Tybrind Vig Bow
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2010, 05:57:43 am »
I have the book you mentioned above.
What do you think about the translation work ?

 Here is a link to pics and messurements ( in mm ) of the original bow :
http://www.buewesth.dk/tybrind_vig_buen_e.html

I think the tiller should be circular on that sort of bow .

acker

Offline Pappy

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Re: In Progress Tybrind Vig Bow
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2010, 06:41:23 am »
Looks good to me and if it shoots good that all that really matters,I often wonder about the  PREFECT tiller on a wood bow, especially on one with a little or a lot of character. Nice job .  :)
   Pappy
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Offline Dane

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Re: In Progress Tybrind Vig Bow
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2010, 07:00:15 am »
Thanks, Pappy and Rick. Speaking of layout, I am making another one in elm I cut last year, and really taking my time with it. I will try and get it done in time for the NEPSG, but that may be pushing it.

Acker, I have no issues with the translation to English from German and Danish. Anyone a bit familar with making bows can figure out the occassional odd word usage. The photography is lush, too. High quality paper, nice binding, big format, almost a coffee table book. The guys who wrote each chapter seem to love making bows, and keep it fun, which I appreciate.

Oh, I do agree, the bow probably should bend more toward the tips, but it seems to be happy in it's current state. I have seen that linked page, and used those dimensions. The photo of the guy's replica is a red x, so I dont know how his tiller came out.

Dane
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 07:16:53 am by Dane »
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline dragonman

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Re: In Progress Tybrind Vig Bow
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2010, 04:46:51 pm »
Loos good to me, nice to see some interest in Viking bows. My wife is descended from a Viking chief by the way, its true ;D
'expansion and compression'.. the secret of life is to balance these two opposing forces.......

orcbow

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Re: In Progress Tybrind Vig Bow
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2010, 07:46:50 pm »
Nice Work, Dane!

Offline Dane

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Re: In Progress Tybrind Vig Bow
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2010, 10:34:57 pm »
Dragonman, thanks. I love Viking culture, the Sagas, all of it. If your wife has direct Viking blood, beware. Don't under any circumstances ask her to give you her hair for a bow string.

Thanks, Adam. This bow was an interesting and fun experience, and gave a lot of kids a good time.

Dane
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts