What is a Warbow ?

[Phil Rees]

This may seem a very obvious question, but I think a very interesting one. What would you consider a consensus definition of a Warbow?  Would the consensus definition change for bows from century to century and would it also change from region to region. An interesting comparison would be the 11th century bows found in Ireland that are attributed to the early Normans and the 16th century Tudor bows, recovered from the Mary Rose both were used in warfare but are very different in shape and draw weight.

[CraigMBeckett]

This question has been asked before in various forms see:

http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,2283.0.html

http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,11609.0.html

Seems to be a bit of a waste of time bringing it up again.

Craig.

[RyanY]

A bow used in war.






SORRY! Couldn't resist. 

[Phil Rees]

Thanks .... very interesting threads

[bow-toxo]

This may seem a very obvious question, but I think a very interesting one. What would you consider a consensus definition of a Warbow?  Would the consensus definition change for bows from century to century and would it also change from region to region. An interesting comparison would be the 11th century bows found in Ireland that are attributed to the early Normans and the 16th century Tudor bows, recovered from the Mary Rose both were used in warfare but are very different in shape and draw weight.

I would be interested to get more information about the bows you mention. From nock to nock [or binding] I don't know of any difference between Mary Rose longbows and any earlier ones othed than draw weight. All have no defined handgrip, apparently meant to bend in an arc, and Mary Rose bows are of oval, square, trapezoidal, or D crosssection, which pretty well exhausts the possibilities. What differences have you found ?

[Jaro]

The bows from waterford are so obviously viking its not even coincidentall, some of them look pretty much like hedaby bows,nocks and all, other have ornate type of pin nock,but once again thing not unknown in germanic environ. Waterford was raided by vikings like 4 or 5 times and burned down couple of times. I wouldnt be surprised if numbers of fighting tools were lying around just uncovered. What we do not seem to perceive, that generic longbow is so simple thing, that saxon would not consider viking bow any other type of bow than his own and that later medieval english archery is not some homogenous body which appeared at once from mysterious source (like my favorite "english longbow was brought from wales"), but rather synthesis of similar archery traditions of different tribes, which eventually destiled along socio-cultural contact.
We have for example saxon bows and viking bows, both from people who came into england and settled there and apparently there was indigenous british archery tradition before and as usually this all mixed.
The fact that the level of technology among them was similar and that they in more than one case shared congeniall language made all this much easier.

J.

[nidrinr]

Without referring to anything but common sense;  I think people from the northwestern parts of Europe have traded and fought since long before we think possible. By studying languages, their development and similarities, and looking with the same eyes at cultural influence, of course they shared and picked up ideas from eachother long before we think they did.
-And by the way, I don't know how many of you who have read "snorre", but by reading it one understand how much prestige there was in being able to pull the heaviest bow. Exactly how heavy the really heavy bows from the viking age were is hard to say, but I'm willing to bet quite a lot of money that not many people today (if any) would have been able to pull Einar Tambarskjelves bow.
And I guess it was not only the vikings who put prestige in pulling the heaviest bow.

But back to the question, in my definition a warbow is a bow able to be used effectively in artillery.

[Rod]

Seems to me that in functional terms it is the ability to outrange someone who is shooting back at you using heavy arrows and to be effective against the defensive systems then current.

The draw-weight would then tend to be in the heavy hunting bow and upward range according to the stage of development in the race between offensive and defensive systems.
According to the time, place and cultural context this could mean anything from 70lb (perhaps even less in some cultures) up to weights in excess of the 150lb.

It is likely that the most accurate shooting would be done by those shooting somewhat less draw-weight than the most that they can draw, which has always been the case.

Rod.

[recurve shooter]

a bow that i cant draw. 

[KenH]

I would define "war bow" as a bow specifically manufactured for military purposes.  Not what showed up when you drafted all the peasants with whatever they had.  Bows that were specifically manufactured in military arsenals for military purposes. 

[makenzie71]

Too broad a thing to answer simply.  As said, it's a bow designed for war...not a specific type.  An example being that you would see larger men with heavy bows on the open field raining on targets hundreds of yards away, but you would see nothing of the type on top of the towers and walls shooting in close quarters between battlements.

[Phil Rees]

So ....if a "warbow" is defined by it's characteristics .... could you define the following as a warbow ...

self yew, deep d section, draws full compass with no riser handle section, side nocks, no arrow plate and draws around 85lbs....


..now if I was to say the bow described above is dated 1770, has a velvet braid bound hand grip and is clearly a recreational target bow, it satisfies all the criteria of a warbow but isn't....

[alanesq]

I would think that recreational bows would originally have been the same bows used for war, but as time passed and they were no longer actually used for war they slowly mutated into the target English longbows that are used today
so rather like in the evolution of a species, bows slowly changes over time and there is not really any single bow you can point to when the change actually happened?

BTW - If you have any pics of the nocks would it be ok to put them up on my sidenock web page ?
www.alanesq.com/sidenock.htm

[Phil Rees]

I would think that recreational bows would originally have been the same bows used for war, but as time passed and they were no longer actually used for war they slowly mutated into the target English longbows that are used today
so rather like in the evolution of a species, bows slowly changes over time and there is not really any single bow you can point to when the change actually happened?

BTW - If you have any pics of the nocks would it be ok to put them up on my sidenock web page ?
www.alanesq.com/sidenock.htm

Alanesq ...the bow described above is in my own collection and 100% satisfies all the definition criteria of what is a "warbow" should be. It represents exactly the transition point between military and recreational bows, that is it's post Tudor and pre Waring and Buchanan.