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Author Topic: Non-Primitive Bow Materials  (Read 31284 times)

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Offline Hillbilly

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Re: Non-Primitive Bow Materials
« Reply #60 on: December 01, 2009, 01:00:44 pm »


All this has been said, done, and gone over a hundred times over the years. All of us are never gonna agree on every aspect of bowyery or what is "primitive," but you can get so tied up in worrying about the details and definitions that you forget to have fun, which is why most of us are doing this to begin with. The criteria for this forum was set long ago for just these reasons-all natural materials except for glue and string-no glass, no plastic, no carbon, etc. There has to be a compromise point and a line drawn somewhere and I don't think that it's going to be in a better place no matter how many times we go over and over this same topic. We could split up into a hundred "niche" forums where there are three people who think exactly alike on each, but I think we would be making a mistake in doing so-I tend to believe that one of the main advantages of this forum is the diversity of members and types of handiwork they produce.
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Offline Jesse

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Re: Non-Primitive Bow Materials
« Reply #61 on: December 01, 2009, 01:05:52 pm »
 ;D ;D its one thing to beat a dead horse but do they have to do it over and over in that same spot.
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Offline Josh

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Re: Non-Primitive Bow Materials
« Reply #62 on: December 01, 2009, 01:11:25 pm »


I founded one too.  LOL
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Offline Jesse

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Re: Non-Primitive Bow Materials
« Reply #63 on: December 01, 2009, 01:14:17 pm »
Quote from: Badger on December 01, 2009, 12:59:46 pm
Jesse,  I am sure glad you said you were kidding. I was starting to think that we were taking this thread way too serious LOL. Good one! Steve
ha ha Yeah this thread needed to lighten up a bit :)            Good one Josh :)
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"If you can find a path with no obstacles, it probably doesn't lead anywhere."
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Offline Okie

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Re: Non-Primitive Bow Materials
« Reply #64 on: December 01, 2009, 01:49:23 pm »
"The criteria for this forum was set long ago for just these reasons-all natural materials except for glue and string-no glass, no plastic, no carbon, etc.


"Hillbilly, I accept these rules, but are they posted anywhere... I can't find them.  If these rules are posted please tell me where. I would play by them if they were accessible. Feel free to remove my bow from this forum. But it was your own moderators that moved it back. So I say PA needs to set some rules and stick to them. And no everyone is not going to agree, but at least the Mods of this site should.
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Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: Non-Primitive Bow Materials
« Reply #65 on: December 01, 2009, 01:58:39 pm »
I feel strongly both ways. I changed my mind (the wind must have starting blowing from the other direction). LOL. I agree with Hillbilly. No plastic, fiberglass or any unnatural materials allowed on bows. Synthetic finishes, synthetic strings, power tools and modern glues are grudgingly allowed. :) Jawge
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Offline makenzie71

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Re: Non-Primitive Bow Materials
« Reply #66 on: December 01, 2009, 02:01:11 pm »
Quote from: Okie1 on December 01, 2009, 01:49:23 pm
"The criteria for this forum was set long ago for just these reasons-all natural materials except for glue and string-no glass, no plastic, no carbon, etc.


"Hillbilly, I accept these rules, but are they posted anywhere... I can't find them.  If these rules are posted please tell me where. I would play by them if they were accessible. Feel free to remove my bow from this forum. But it was your own moderators that moved it back. So I say PA needs to set some rules and stick to them. And no everyone is not going to agree, but at least the Mods of this site should.

The rules are posted in a sticky at the top of each forum...

http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,95.0.html
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Offline Okie

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Re: Non-Primitive Bow Materials
« Reply #67 on: December 01, 2009, 02:09:06 pm »
Yea I know where the rules are posted, but not the specific rules Hillbilly stated. Rule #3 states there is to be no discussion of post industrial materials. WOW this topic should have been locked a long time ago. And................... never mind ::).
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<---------<<<Founding Member Oklahoma Selfbow Society>>>-----------> Vice President OSS

Offline medicinewheel

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Re: Non-Primitive Bow Materials
« Reply #68 on: December 01, 2009, 02:15:54 pm »

Some threads are VERY strange and irritating...!  ??? ??? ???
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Offline wolfsire

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Re: Non-Primitive Bow Materials
« Reply #69 on: December 01, 2009, 04:44:19 pm »
Rule #3 states:

“Topics and posts should be related to primitive archery in some way. If you want to discuss other topics in life there are plenty of other places on the internet you can go. This place is about primitive archery. Discussions on the use of post-industrial materials (yes that means FG) is not allowed here.”

The rule is poorly written, misunderstood and arbitrary enforced. 

It does not say anything about glue or string.  All kinds of bows could “be related to primitive archery in some way” and yet still involved “the use of post-industrial materials” and fiberglass in particular.

But the arbitrary enforcement is the worst part.  I’m not saying that glue or string would be a bad rule, and I’m not saying that glass laminate bows should generally not be discussed.

But look at this build along:  Re: Fiberglass takedown sleeve http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,8511.0.html

There Mullet Global Moderator stated: “This is a good build-along. This is exactly the way it was done in the article in a back issue of Primitive Archer.”

I’m sure Mullet is correct and I am not criticizing him for his comment.  It is not something that I want to read about, but so what.  An otherwise wood bow should be allowed here.

There is a very good reason this thread keeps coming up.  And that is because it is what this site and magazine is about.

There is a very good reason that the treads get very long and contentious.  It is because, as I said, the rule is poorly written, misunderstood and arbitrary enforced. 

To put my last comment, above on p. 2 I think, in other words.  Before the moderators exclude comments or even make comments, think about keeping and expanding the subscription base of the magazine and using honey instead of vinegar.  Or at least one consistently.

"Topics and posts should be related to primitive archery in some way."  I like that.  That is what I look for, not "Topics and posts must be exclusively about primitive archery, as I like to define it, to the exclusion of all else, unless I like it."

YMMV

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Steve in LV, NV

Offline Okie

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Re: Non-Primitive Bow Materials
« Reply #70 on: December 01, 2009, 04:49:12 pm »
Very well said!
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<---------<<<Founding Member Oklahoma Selfbow Society>>>-----------> Vice President OSS

Offline Badger

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Re: Non-Primitive Bow Materials
« Reply #71 on: December 01, 2009, 04:54:01 pm »
Wolf, I understand your point and it does make sense. Years ago this never came up as an issue. Everyone just kind of understould it was about wood bows. Basicaly the limbs were all wood or natural. I think as long as the limbs are all natural you won't hear too much complaining. When it coomes to BOM I guess maybe they might have to get more specific. But in general I think it works well as it is. If the bow limbs remain all natural we will never get too far off base.
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Shadow Walker

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Re: Non-Primitive Bow Materials
« Reply #72 on: December 01, 2009, 06:52:34 pm »
I don't think there is anything wrong wiyh using modern glues and such, and particularly the bow in question that started this thread. If it was a non-bending handle, then it doesn't affect the performance of the bow. My point was only to observe the fact that there should be seperate considerations for those who make all natural bows. Unfortunatly, as it has been pointed out, there isn't enough of these bows being constructed to warrant a seperate category. I am a little surprised at that, but the reasoning does seem logical.
It has been mentioned on here that there is doubt that even one primitive (all natural) bow will be constructed and displayed on this site in the next year.
Well, for those who like their "primitive bows", and are in defense of them, this should read as a challenge!...I'm taking the challenge! I'm building one! Further more, I challenge other "defenders" to do the same! Let's get the ball rolling! It's easy to have convictions when they don't cost you anything!
Here's my personal criteria for an "all natural" bow ( each person needs to determine their own criteria, based on what they like and need.)
For me,, this is it:
Must be short as possible because I hunt brush.
Must be at least 50# for hunting.
must be fast and accurate for a clean kill.
And, lastly, it must be "pretty" to give it a chance in the competition.
Any takers on this challenge??
If so, Be sure to post your personal criteria for the design of your bow.
Remember though,,,NO MODERN MATERIALS! Wood, hide glue, sinew, cotton, silk, rawhide ect.
LET"S HAVE SOME FUN!! As well as standing up to our convictions!
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Offline kayakfisher

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Re: Non-Primitive Bow Materials
« Reply #73 on: December 01, 2009, 07:26:12 pm »
In the chronicles and diaries of Lewis and Clark they talk about a native American that had a steel bow apparently made from a wagon hoop. Now thats called stirring the pot  >:D But if this is a real issue put it to vote like we do the bow of the month you all did vote right ifn not vote for my son.Ifn its about politics then I am campaigning for my son.
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Offline Dano

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Re: Non-Primitive Bow Materials
« Reply #74 on: December 01, 2009, 08:16:37 pm »
"Here's my personal criteria for an "all natural" bow ( each person needs to determine their own criteria, based on what they like and need.)
For me,, this is it:
Must be short as possible because I hunt brush.
Must be at least 50# for hunting.
must be fast and accurate for a clean kill.
And, lastly, it must be "pretty" to give it a chance in the competition.
Any takers on this challenge?"

Yeah, I'll take that challenge, I make a few short pretty bows that shoot 525 grain arras at 198 fps. I only use a stone drawknife to build em too.  O:)

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