whats the diff

[sailordad]

well i havent been knapping long and i have never found a point in my life.nor have i ever seen them up close
only seen "original" ones in pics.
so i have been wondering,how large is a stone arrow head supposed to be before it would be considered an atlatl dart point.
i have never really been able to tell the differance from pics as there never is any real ize referance in the pics that i have seen of originals.
so i was just curious as to what the differance in size is

i have made some points that look like the would work for arrows,but when i way them out they only way like 50-60 grains
when i make them to way,like the modern standard, 125 grains they seem kinda large for arrows
thanks for the help

[DanaM]

Well Tim I'm no expert either but I would say anything over 3" is getting big fer an arrowhead
and I was also surprised when weighing a stone point just how light stone is

[El Destructo]

From what I was just reading after Googling Weights of Primitive Arrowheads......I would say that 50-70 grains is an Arrowhead...and I am under the Impression that anything over say...80 grains is an Atlatl Dart Point...and bigger than that is a Spear Point....the Points that We call Bird Points were most likely used more for Deer and other Animals than a Bird...which the Arrow would either miss or pass right through and be lost....when they could just use a Net or a Box Trap to catch a Bird....

Now I am no expert either....and could very well be mistaken....but if you look back at all N.A pictured with Bows and Arrows....aren't all of the Points small??

[sailordad]

thanks guys

Dana: ya was surprised too at how light stone is for the size of point,thats why i started too make them bigger.got that stupid modern standard stuck
         in my head,that an arrow head must weigh 100-125 grains.

Mike: your absolutely right,the points do look small in all pics.
        but like said,i have never seen an original up close to actually see the true size of them
        i guess from now on i will just go by my instincts and keep them right around that 1.5" and 60-80 grains.

i knew people on here would have the answers i needed.
everyone here is so smart when it comes to primitive.glad to know i will be in good company when modern civilization ends again

[El Destructo]

Tim...I am sure that Shannon..the Primitive Point Hound.........can take you some measurements or pictures with a Ruler for reference ....I mean he must have thousands of the Tobacco Field Points....or I can get a hold of a Buddy.Kenny Hale.....he had paleo Points from true Clovis on up to Pre-Caucasian Influence  Points in his collection....10's of thousands of Dollars worth...and I could probably get Him to snap Pictures....if He will take them out of the Gun Vault He stores them all in...........

[Hillbilly]

The difference between atlatl dart points and arrow points isn't size, it's time. I have Palmer, Lecroy, etc. dart points that are close to 10,000 years old and are tiny-smaller than 90% of the arrowheads I make for my own use. Some were big, some were small, many were problaby knives or other tools. The only true test as what it was is to type it to time frame. Most points before about 1,000 BC were dart points or knives, after that, more and more arrow points started appearing as the bow's use spread.

[Newbow]

A handy (essential, really) reference is Overstreet Indian Arrowheads, an identification and price guide to all kinds of U.S. points, not just arrowheads.  It has thousands of actual size photographs from all eras from all over the U.S. including Alaska.  The newest edition is the 11th and is $20.00 from Amazon.com, but also from them you can get a used copy of the 6th edition for about $8.00. 

[redwasp]

Sailordad you should plan a trip to a museum, After I went to one and saw the pottery, clothes, bows, atlatls, arrows, points, clubs, and tools I had a better grasp on the subject.. Just a thought.I had fun on my expedition very educational.