River cane arrow questions

[nonamesleft47]

Hi everybody, this is my first post here although I've been lurking for a while.  I've recently gotten back into traditional archery after a ten year hiatus while my kids were small and I was hunting with training wheels...  I dug my recurve out, really just to show my kids that I could beat them with a bow with NO SIGHTS just like I do with the compound.  Then something amazing happened, I remembered how much I enjoyed watching that heavy arrow arch out to the target and smack the spot I was aiming at. 

So today I cut a hickory, split 7 staves and started chopping a self bow out.  I made several osage bows back pre-kids and enjoyed shooting them.  When I get one that is shootable I'd like to use cane arrows.  I have access to plenty of river cane here in Kentucky but since I'm fairly impatient I bought some of the green dyed cane from Wally world and thought I'd practice with it first.  They were on sale, 20 six footers for about 2 bucks.  I've searched the message board and haven't found a real answer for my question.  What diameter cane makes the best arrow?  Front end diameter?  Nock end diameter?  The smaller end is the nock end correct? 

Do you match them by diameter, spine, weight?  A combination of all three?  Is any one more important than the others?  I was thinking I would straighten, insert foreshafts and shoot them before fletching them to see which ones grouped together the best.  If you shoot them from say 10 feet they should group by spine correct?   

The arrows will probably have dowel foreshafts but cut flush with the cane so I can insert trade points (I found a box of about 20 I made a long time ago)  What is the advantage of a foreshaft that extends out the end of the arrow?  Wouldn't it weaken the arrow? 

Sorry for all the questions but thanks alot for the help. Ted

[GregB]

Hi, I'm using cane arrows this year hunting for the first time. I cut quite a bit of it green back during the summer. I'm shooting around 50lbs at about 27" draw. My arrow on the broadhead (big end) are about 3/8" diameter, and of course less on the nock end. The final length for my arrows are 30". I put hardwood inserts in both ends for strength using titebond III. I grouped the cane first by weight, trying to keep them within 50 grains of eachother, then spine tested them as much for learning about them as anything. Seems like those that shot the best from my bow were within 10-15 lbs spine of each other. I tapered the ends and glued on regular broadheads ( I used Magna's). Need to have the stiffer side of your cane facing into the bow I found...have to determine that of course before you cut your nocks. I first drilled an 1/8" hole and then cut to it for the nocks. Sand the area for your fletching if you plan to glue attach them, won't attach well to the natural finish. I left quill exposed on both ends of the fletching and sinew wrapped the ends after gluing the feather on. I also sinew wrapped just below the nock. I rasped and sanded the nodes down almost flush with the rest of the cane.

Use heat to straighten, I used a one burner propane stove and straightened by eye by using leather gloves to tweak the cane when hot. Try not to burn it, and it will break at the nodes if you put to much pressure on it when straightening. I straighten between the nodes first, then the nodes themselves.

Hillbilly had an excellant article one cane in one of the recent PA magazines, I think back in July. Good reading!  Best is to just get started and you'll learn alot as you go!

[JackCrafty]

Do you match them by diameter, spine, weight?  A combination of all three?  Is any one more important than the others?  I was thinking I would straighten, insert foreshafts and shoot them before fletching them to see which ones grouped together the best.  If you shoot them from say 10 feet they should group by spine correct?   

I match them by weight first, and I think the weight is the most important.  Of course, matching by all three is best.

Shooting them at 10 feet will be easy and they should all group well.  What you are looking for are the ones that stick straight in.  If you're a right-handed shooter, and if the nock end is cocked to the right, then the spine is too stiff, and vice versa.  You can sand down rivercane a little to make the spine weaker, but if you have access to lots of cane, then it's better to gather lots of shafts, shoot them, and then weed out the bad ones.

The diameter will probably vary between shafts because cane is not perfectly consistent in stiffness, so giving you an ideal diameter might not be the best idea.  The best thing to do is shoot a bunch of unfletched arrows (with foreshafts and broadheads) to see which ones stick straight into the target @ 10 feet.

[Hillbilly]

You've gotten some good answers so far. I like to cut mine about 3/8" at the big end green. By the time they dry and shrink, most wind up somewhere around 23/64" or so.  Being picky when you're cutting cane save a lot of work and trouble later on. I'm like Greg and Patrick, I try to weight match them fairly closely first. With their natural taper, cane shafts are usually pretty spine tolerant. I find foreshafts to be a lot of unneccessary work and completely unneeded myself. I don't usually even plug them unless I'm tapering them for field points. Cane is strong, strong, strong-much stronger than wood. They're almost unbreakable, fly great, warp much less than wood, and have good weight for hunting arrows.

[nonamesleft47]

Thanks for clearing that up guys.  I just wasn't sure how big was TOO big.  I think most of the green stuff I bought at Walmart is too big but it should make some good atlatl spears for my son.  I'll cut some of my own shafts in a couple of weeks as soon as the first round of deer hunting slows down a little. 

Thanks, Ted

[PeteC]

Switch or river cane is an amazing arrow material.But,it is a wonder how much the shafts vary in weight and spine.I have found ,if you want to build matched sets ,you've got to build a bunch of arrows.I take time to select cane,like Hillbilly said,then,allow them to dry a month.I first sand down the nodes,then straighten it,cut in nocks ,taking advantage of the node.Glue in hardwood inserts.Do a final sanding,then weigh and spine test.and separate them into matching groups.When  I can put together a set of a 1/2 dozen,I'll figure how heavy a point I need,and can further increase weight by applying a coat or more of finish,if needed.Otherwise ,I put a few coats of tru-oil on,mount the heads,fletch em,and they're done.Hope this helps.They are easy and fast to make.  God Bless

[hammerstone]

Ted.I talked to mickey lotz at mojam this year and he said that overspined was the way to go with rivercane. I had been spining mine ten to five lbs. under the weight of my self bows as i do with wood and was getting decent flight out to twenty yards.Since switching to overspined cane my accuracy has improved substantialy out to thirty and beyond.Not that i shoot at deer that far away , but it shure is fun to nail a pine cone at forty yards.

[Dutchman58]

I see one reference to drying time in a post above.

How long do you dry your shaft material before starting with straightening? I have some cane that was cut in late January of this year that I have drying and I'm itching to get started on that batch if the time's right. I also have some that I'm fooling with now that have dried for a year. That batch is working out pretty well so far.

Another question, when do you find is the best time of year for cutting cane shafts? I have access to a fair amount of cane and can cut at any time of year, but I wonder what is the prime time.

[Pat B]

Winter is the easiest time to harvest because you don't have to worry about bugs or snakes but you can cut any time of the year. You do want to cut only mature canes though. You want to cut after the 2nd growing season. Each culm(cane) has a 3 year growing cycle. If the paper like sheath is deteriorating or completely gone it should be mature enough.
  If you cut the cane in January they should be fine to work now. The hill cane arrows I just posted were cut this past January.