what lbs makes it a warbow insted of a longbow

[mspink]

Im sure the first deadly argument with a bow in a cave over fireburnt rabbit scraps wasnt settled with a one hundred pound bow. It may not have been war by conventional standards but it most certainly was war for the guy who didnt have to share the rest of the rabbit, Id say a warbow could be any bow that could end a mans life.

[Yeomanbowman]

mspink,
whilst you are technically right I think you have the wrong end of the (bent?) stick.  This thread refers to the English medieval/Tudor warbow not paleolithic bows.

[Rod]

On the other hand the use of draw weights in the 100 lb range are probably of far greater antiquity than many of us might think.

Rod.

[alanesq]

I am sure you are right

I know these days most people think of a 100lb bow as being very heavy but once you get over this idea and start trying heavy bows you soon find you think of a 100lb bow as being a very light bow

[nickf]

alan,

I find 110# pleasant to shoot, but after 40shots my shoulders hurt pretty much, and I quit. I won't say that 110# is really heavy, but neither would I say 100# is very light.

Nick

[alanesq]

I bet if you tried a 100lb bow you would be surprised how light it feels now you are used to using a 110lb one

I have a 105lb bow I use for indoor archery and after shooting my 140lb one it really does feel like I am not trying at all and I could hold it at full draw for hours (although I probably couldn't)

[Yewboy]

I bet if you tried a 100lb bow you would be surprised how light it feels now you are used to using a 110lb one

I have a 105lb bow I use for indoor archery and after shooting my 140lb one it really does feel like I am not trying at all and I could hold it at full draw for hours (although I probably couldn't)

And probably shouldn't!, not unless you want to break it.

[bow-toxo]

I would like to know when was the earliest use of the term 'warbow' ? I have not come across it in any mediaeval or Renaissance writings and I suspect that it may be a modern made-up word. I wonder why we should exclude less powerful longbows from investigation. BTW the word longbow was nof a Victorian invention.

                                                        Erik

[alanesq]

I think the term "warbow" comes from or at least was made popular by Robert Hardy's book "The Great Warbow"

I don't think lighter bows should be ignored but I think we need to distinguish between them and the bows which would have been used for war as they are very different and I think even now some people believe that the 40lb bow they have is a replica of the bows used at Agincourt  (although things have improved a lot in this respect even in the 3 years I have been interested in archery)

[Yeomanbowman]

The term ‘warbow’, with regard to the Anglo-Welsh medieval/Tudor tradition may not be contemporary with the period it refers to.  I believe livery bow may be more correct.  However, it is a title that has become to categorise these bows.  No one would degenerate the title ‘Neanderthal’ because a hominid of that type would not use it.  We will never know what they used as a self descriptor but we do not argue over the modern version.  By this token the, albeit, retrospective name of ‘English warbow’ is a useful one and describes the type of bow well to a modern audience.   

[bow-toxo]

I think the term "warbow" comes from or at least was made popular by Robert Hardy's book "The Great Warbow"

I don't think lighter bows should be ignored but I think we need to distinguish between them and the bows which would have been used for war as they are very different and I think even now some people believe that the 40lb bow they have is a replica of the bows used at Agincourt  (although things have improved a lot in this respect even in the 3 years I have been interested in archery)

    My impression has been that the 'livery' [issued by the crown or lord] such as the MR longbows differed from other longbows in that they were stronger and longer versions, and were otherwise the same, arrow length etc.. If you know of other differences, I would appreciaate the information. If I am right, considering the "warbow"as a separate beast leaves out mediaeval and Tudor information about longbows and leaves us with very little information about "warbows' which were not mentioned by that title. Of course a 40 lb bow would not have been used at Agincourt, it would have been used to teach archery to a child.

[alanesq]

Honestly; I think there are a lot of people who really believe their 40lb target longbow is apart from not being a self bow just like the bows used at Agincourt
seeing some of the re enactments done and t.v. programs you can understand why - how often do we see a T.V. program talking of "the mighty longbows of Agincourt" then see someone twang a little butt bow as a demonstration

As I say, even in the last 3 years there has been a big change in this and the idea of shooting a very heavy bow is starting to be accepted as maybe not that insane after all

so its not been so much a matter of ignoring lighter longbows as trying to get people to accept the idea that heavy ones existed at all!

[backgardenbowyer]

I think bow-toxo is right about the meaning of "livery" - it normally refers to uniform issued to a servant or retainer. When applied to a bow it would simply mean "standard/government issue".  I doubt if this implied a particular style of bow, probably it just meant one that was issued from store rather than something bespoke for the individual archer.

[Yeomanbowman]

That's right.  An issued bow would have been for war and not for recreation/hunting so any livery bow was a 'warbow'.  There must have been personal bows used for war that were, obviously, not livery bows.  During the medieval/Tudor period in England there simply was not the plethora of bows we have now so everyone largely knew what a bow was simply by that term.

[bow-toxo]

That's right.  An issued bow would have been for war and not for recreation/hunting so any livery bow was a 'warbow'.  There must have been personal bows used for war that were, obviously, not livery bows.  During the medieval/Tudor period in England there simply was not the plethora of bows we have now so everyone largely knew what a bow was simply by that term.

Before the Hundred Years War in the feudal system. levys could be used only in homeland defense and only for a limited time while foreign mercenaries were used in foreign wars . In that period , personal bows may have been used in the levys. Edward III changed the system to one of locally recruited and paid archers, so at the beginning of the Hundred Years War the crown began to order [livery] bows and arrows to be made in huge numbers for the war. Any personal bows used in war after that time must have been few in niumber. Bow terminology at that time included "crossbow", "hand bow", "long bow"[two words}, "livery bow" and "small bow". No mention of "warbow" that I can find.